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Ron
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Posted: Sun Jul 27th, 2008 12:22 am |
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Please visit the website, Civil War Artillery Message Board, for a discussion concerning Ruggles' line of artillery. Do a Yahoo or a Google search and you will find it.
Ron
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Ron
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Wrap10
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Posted: Sat Aug 2nd, 2008 01:32 pm |
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No need to search - just click on this link:
http://history-sites.net/cgi-bin/bbs53x/cwartmb/webbbs_config.pl
Looks like a good board. I see a couple of familiar names under that discussion on Ruggles. 
Perry
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C.D.RICKMAN
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Posted: Sat Mar 14th, 2009 02:27 am |
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| According to a lot of confederate accounts. Ruggles had only 50 pieces of artillery. Most union reports put the number at 60.
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Ron
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Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 02:18 am |
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CD:
You are right that Ruggles did not have as many guns as authors give him credit for. Most of the books on Shiloh give a number of 62 which is too high. I now believe Ruggles' line had 55 guns. The reason this wrong number of 62, keeps getting mention is that some authors just passed it on, in their books without any analysis. As a example, Ketchum's battery is listed with 6 guns, but actually only one section was present with only two guns. This section had been earlier detailled to guard the Owl Creek bridge but was later ordered east on the Main Shiloh road where it was put into Ruggles' line of guns. This section was commanded by Lieutenant Thrall.
Ron
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C.D.RICKMAN
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Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 02:31 am |
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| I think I had come up with 53 guns when we were trying to figure the number in the 70's.
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Ron
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Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 03:56 am |
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CD
Yes that is the number that I got but now believe that the battery Ruggles referred as Trabue's Kentucky battery which I totally discarded as simply an error, is actually a section of Cobb's Kentucky battery of 2 guns. This section is reported to have not been in the action that destroyed the other two sections of Cobb's battery and was pushed into Ruggles' line of Artillery. so, 53 + 2 = 55 guns.
Ron
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EGM
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 03:26 am |
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I know there is controversy around Ruggles artillery line, some say Shoup really organized it, some say it was ineffective and that the smoke it generated was probably more effective than the actual bombardment itself, and of course the big thing of controvery revolves around trying to determine the number count.
Put aside, for this discussion, whether it was Shoup or Ruggles, and whether it was effective or not. And lets also say it was 52-55 or maybe even 50 in number, and skip the higher estimates.
I have two simple questions:
1- For what purpose was this large number of batteries assembled into one line (why was the line developed by officers of the CSA, what did they expect to achieve, what was their goal) during the battle? Did the southern officers see it as crucial? If not why did they bother to do it?
2- Even with the lower estimates, was it an historic, noteworthy, never before seen (at least in this hemisphere) concentration of firepower, or was it nothing really notable or unusual? Is it all much ado about nothing much?
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c.d.rickman
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Posted: Mon Jul 6th, 2009 03:42 pm |
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| I think the idea orginated with P.T.G. who had a great faith in the power of the artillery. In fact he had issued orders early in the day that artillery was to be used in batteries of no less than 12 guns, if my memory is correct(I can't remember where that info is presently but I'm also sure Ron will know). If the terrain had allowed the confederates to bring their guns to bear on the union infantry it proably would have had the desired effect. but with the guns not being able to knock out the union lines they were able tyo hold for a lengthy time. basically it was a duel of infantry to infantry and artillery to artillery.
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Ron
Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 7th, 2009 03:05 pm |
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Hello Everybody,
As for Eliane's two questions concerning Ruggles line of artillery.
C. D. is correct that Beauregard at the least, made a statement that the guns should be gathered in groups of 12 guns. Concentrated artillery fire was (and still is) more effective than the fire of individual batteries. I thought that he mentioned this in Special Order No. 8 but it does not appear. I can't find the source at present but I'm confident he made this statement. Despite any mention or orders to group the guns together, this did not happen much during the battle. If anything, the opposite happened with staff officers who were roving the battlefield without actual specific orders, ordered a gun section (2 guns) removed from its battery and moved to another area of the battle. Thereby, the effect of the confederate artillery fire was in widespread pattern with no concentrations. The result was a loss of effectiveness.
The concentration of artillery that was placed in the trees along the western edge of the Duncan field is known in history by the title "Ruggles' line of guns". This concentration originated about 3 pm when General Beauregard was informed of the death of General A S Johnston thereby making Beauregard the army commander. He immediately moved to push the stalled rebel attack (He thought) by assigning General Bragg the command in the eastern sector of the battlefield and General Ruggles to command in the center of the battlefield, the Duncan field sector. Ruggles issued orders to gather the artillery into a group which I believe came to contain 55 guns. Major Francis Shoup also claims a portion of the credit for this grouping which came about because Shoup and Ruggles were unaware of the other being present. Remember that there were actually two groups of guns, the northern group and the southern group. The northern group contained the batteries located by aides of General Ruggles and brought to the field. Most of these guns had been near the Woolf field and the fighting below the Jones field. This group is the group formed by Ruggles. The southern group was commanded by Major Shoup and contained a group of batteries who ALL had been under Shoup"s supervision and ALL had been resting in the area below the Review field following the fighting at the Crossroads and the Main Corinth Road above the Review field. This means that the guns of these two groups came from differant areas of the battlefield and explains much of the mystery of the formation of this line of guns. I believe that Shoup was not aware of the presence of the northern group of guns (as were others) and Ruggles' orders to gather the guns. Each claimed credit for their actions innocent of the other's claim. Major Shoup was a creditable officer of his own merit with a distingushed career . I believe that both officers acted on their own initiative with no desire to injure the other.
The artillery concentration of 55 guns was, up to that time, the largest concentration of artillery ever on the north american continent and was thereby a historical event. This did not last long as it was quickly surpassed by, sooner more than later, artillery concentrations. It lost its historical importance by these following gun concentrations and was quickly overlooked in civil war history.
The confederates wanted to push the attack against the union positions along the sunken road which were still resisting at this time, now about 3:30. The guns were gathered to apply heavy pressure on the union lines and support the rebel infantry attacks (A side note-at this time no rebel infantry attacks were sent across the open Duncan field from the west edge of the fields, only up from the Davis Wheat field against the Hornets Nest). Artillery fire opened about 3:30 by a battery already in position here (west of the Duncan farm) and was picked up when other batteries arrived and extended the line south. Only about 4 pm did the fire become heavy and this action by the guns at 4 pm became the source for later claims of the effectiveness of the rebel artillery fire. These claims were misguided as the rebel fire really not that effective. The slack union artillery fire was taken by the rebel officers as a sign the union positions were suffering from the rebel gun fire but actually union artillery were withdrawing from the field by orders , because of their battle losses and they were out of ammunition. This was the same error made by the confederate artillery barrage at the Battle of Gettysburg when they noticed the union guns slack fire and withdrawal. Here, the slack fire was caused by General Hunt's orders to conserve ammunition for the later infantry attack and the pull back of wrecked union batteries and their replacement from the general reserve all by orders of Hunt.
Two quick notes-----I consider General Henry Hunt to be the best artillery officer during the civil war. His bio is interesting as is his innovations concerning the artillery service.
The above spell check is not working.
Hope this helps
Ron
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Posted: Sun Jan 10th, 2010 12:27 pm |
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A link to Ruggles Official Report:
http://www.civilwarhome.com/rugglesshilohor.htm
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