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tawillging
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 07:08 pm |
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| My great uncle, or great uncles son served in the 8th Illinois through 1862. I know that the 8th Illinois was pretty shot up at Fort Donelson, but I am trying to find out more about the units involvement at Shiloh. I know the unit was with McClernand's division, but am trying to get a little more detail. Thanks.
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idaho native
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 07:56 pm |
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There is some information on the 8th Illinois that can be gleaned from this webpage.
http://www.illinoiscivilwar.org/cw8.html
Another site with a bit of info.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/hareshilohor.htm
Here is a link to several books with info on the 8th Illinois Infantry
http://www.archive.org/details/eighthillinois00goodLast edited on Tue Jul 21st, 2009 08:41 pm by idaho native
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Wrap10
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Posted: Thu Jul 23rd, 2009 02:28 am |
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Hi Tim,
It looks like Sharon has given you some good suggestions. (She has a habit of doing that sort of thing.) Here's a little more reading material that hopefully will help as well. It's from the National Park Service web site on Shiloh.
First is a link to a picture of 8th Illinois monument on the battlefield. It has kind of a unique distinction, as it is the only Union monument located along the line of cannons representing Ruggles Battery on the edge of Duncan Field. You can't see the cannons in this photo, but it's one of the most famous areas of the park...
http://www.shilohbattlefield.org/closeup.asp?ClosePhoto=TN003M046C.jpg
The regiment was located there on the morning of April 6th, as part of a long defensive line that was overrun around 11:00 a.m., prior to the formation of Ruggles Battery later that afternoon.
Trying to find a picture showing the monument from a wider angle. Here's a couple of pretty good shots of it on Flickr...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9948354@N08/2328855715/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cwpt/3512689013/
You can see the monument off to the left of the cannons, a little in the background. If you click on the "All Sizes" link at the top of the first picture, you'll get a larger view. (The second picture does not have this option.) The men would have been facing the same general direction as you are in these photos. You're actually looking at the back of the monument in these shots. The Confederates that overran the position were charging toward the camera.
Here's another link from the NPS site, showing the various position markers for the 8th Illinois during the battle. Click on the links for a picture of the markers, and then click where it says "View Picture Here" for the text that goes with each of them...
http://www.shilohbattlefield.org/results.asp?varCWUNIT=UIL0008RI01&Submit=Submit
Finally, here's an overview of the 8th Illinois' involvement at Shiloh from D.W. Reed's account of the battle. It starts with McClernand's Division, then continues down through the brigades, including Hare's, which included the 8th...
http://www.shilohbattlefield.org/commission/Pages/Tennessee/McClernand/mcclernanddiv.htm
There's also a link to the 8th Illinois that you'll see, but that will take you to the same list of markers that I already linked in above.
Hope this helps, Tim. Any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.
Perry
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"And all is hushed at Shiloh." - Herman Melville
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tawillging
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Posted: Thu Jul 23rd, 2009 05:31 pm |
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Thanks for the help everyone. I have truly enjoyed looking at all of these sites. Perry, I actually didn't realize that the 8th was that close to what became the Hornet's Nest. Guess you learn something new everyday. I was under the impression that they were further west. Of course, I am a relative newcomer to the western theater, but I hope to play catch up quickly.
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Wrap10
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Posted: Sat Jul 25th, 2009 01:48 pm |
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Tim, the 8th was the far left regiment of McClernand's defensive line that stretched over to the Crossroads - the intersection of the Hamburg-Purdy Road and the Main Corinth Road (which is also referred to by a few other names in various accounts of the battle), and continued a little ways past that intersection by what remained of Sherman's division (mainly Buckland's brigade). From there the 8th appears to have spent most of their time on what's considered the western side of the battlefield, so you're initial impression is actually pretty good.
They began the battle sort of on the border between the western side of the battlefield and the center, but even though there were Union troops beyond their left flank and within sight, they were on the opposite side of Duncan Field, and there was a pretty good gap between the two lines. When you see it on a map, I think it can be a little deceiving, as it appears that McClernand's line is covered by Tuttle & Sweeny (W.H.L. Wallace's division) on their left. But when you see it in person, it can leave a different impression.
Plus, the ground is not level across the field, and I think that combined with the angle at which the Confederates would have been approaching the 8th would have made it a little difficult for Wallace's men across the field to get a good look at the charging Rebels in time to help. So if the men in the 8th felt that they were anchored on their left, the impression was probably deceiving.
I swear I have a picture or two looking across Duncan Field from near the 8th Illinois monument, but I can't find it at the moment.
In the meantime though, here's a series of maps from a web site called CivilWarLandscapes.org. The first one shows the campsite for the various Union regiments prior to the battle. If you scroll down the map till you see Jones Field, a bit toward the left side of the map as you scroll down, you'll see the campsite for the 8th Illinois in the upper-right part of that field (clicking on the camp icon will also bring up a picture of the camp marker)...
http://www.civilwarlandscapes.org/cwla/states/tn/sh/tm_time/day1/camps_r.htm
This next one shows the situation at about 9:30 on the morning of the 6th. Scroll down until you see the line marked "Hare," about in the center of the field. The far right side of that line, as you're looking at the map, is where the 8th Illinois was located when their part of the battle began...
http://www.civilwarlandscapes.org/cwla/states/tn/sh/tm_time/day1/d1_0930.htm
If you scroll all the way to the bottom of the map, you'll see a link that says, "Maps by Time" for the first day's battle. Clicking on that will take you to a page where you can work your way through a series of steps maps on the battle. I might have a few quibbles with the maps here and there, but for the most part they're pretty good.
I'll see if I can't find that picture.
Perry
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"And all is hushed at Shiloh." - Herman Melville
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Wrap10
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Posted: Sun Jul 26th, 2009 02:30 am |
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Well, I can't find that picture that I was certain I had. Maybe someone slipped me one of those beers that Jim's been talking about, and it affected my memory. 
Perry
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"And all is hushed at Shiloh." - Herman Melville
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WI16thJim
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Posted: Sun Jul 26th, 2009 04:10 pm |
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Beer lubs the memory to allow it to work better (but not in excess).
Jim
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Herman Melville 1866 A Dirge for McPherson
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Ralph Allen
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Posted: Mon Jan 4th, 2010 08:26 pm |
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I did get through quite a number of the letters etc from Col Allen of the 16thWis. There was a morning muster sheet filled out by Sabin for April 6. It shows the 4 companies out on picket duty. Interestingly it also indicates that Maj Reynolds had been put under arrest by order of Maj Gen U.S. Grant on Feb 28. I find no reason, but there is interesting information on Reynolds in later documents. It seems that things were set off by a letter to the Mauston paper (published) that was quoted by one of the Captains who wrote the Milwaukee paper and told them that the Reynolds letter was a fabrication and doubted that it came from any of the officers. In the Mauston letter Reynolds is made to sound like he was the hero and that Col Allen was confused. Letters from others indicate that Reynolds had abandoned the troops and retreated to the river on the first day. LtCol Fairchild was wounded early (he was brought up on court marshal for desertion but he had kept surgeons informed of his health before rejoining the regiment). There is a letter that says that when first ordered to retreat by Gen Prentiss some of the men were slow in responding and kept fighting until repeated orders got them to move back. At some point Col Allen saw that the colors had been dropped and was not with the regiment (probably by one of the 6 color bearers killed that day). He went forward and with the help of one of the sergeants (Wheeler comes to mind) was able to retrieve the colors and bear them back. Apparently a captured Confederate Officer saw the action and complimented his bravery. I do not know when the pistols were lost, but there were apparently 2 of them. One was picked up by a Confederate cavalry trooper and another was eventually sent to Madison to the state historical society.
After falling back to get ammunition and awaiting orders from Prentiss, another officer sent what remained of the 16th WIS to relieve and Indiana regt that had run out of ammunition. Here the regiment fought from an exposed position and here Col Allen received his wound. At this point Reynolds would have been the senior officer. There was apparently some political stuff going on. After the letter to the Mauston paper Col Allen wrote his report and there were several other letters that said that the Mauston report was really wrong and mean spirited. There was also confusion in Wisconsin because Col Alban of the 18th WIS was killed (with the problems people had with reading writing it was easy to see why some papers (including Chicago) reported death of Col Allen.
There are papers that charge Maj Reynolds with desertion, cruelty to soldiers (there was a general order that was issued by Grant that officers were not supposed to abuse their soldiers and a letter from Gov Solamon for Col Allen to look into charges made by a father who indicated that his son was sick, beaten with a sword and died by an officer of the 16th. Reynolds was also charged with marching the men around on the 7th to avoid getting into any battle. I have not figured all this out but it appears that the court marshal may not have taken place as Col Allen was not there.
Interesting thing about Capt Saxe who was the first to fall at Shiloh. He was a strong minded Democrat and may have ordered his men into the thick of things to prove his loyalty. Col Allen was also a democrat who had been a state Senator. These democrats may have been political outsiders from the state where the Republican Party was first organized.
Interesting thing about how they consolidated regiments that had been badly shot up. If they could not combine or recruit enough to fill more than 5 companies they would muster out a Col., Major, and Asst Surgeon and add completely new companies. This happened to the 16thWis. LtCol Fairchild was afraid that he would be dismissed before he was well enough to return. Maj Reynolds commanded while Col Allen was in command of the Brigade (it appears that Gen McArthur was in Washington involved in a high profile trial of Fitz John Porter). Fairchild feared that Reynolds was trying to push him out to maintain command. Col Allen requested that the 16th WIS be put into McArthur’s Brigade (which MacArthur requested from Grant and assured that Col Allen would be protected even if McA had to write Lincoln).
About Col Allen being promoted. McArthur and Grant wrote that Allen deserved promotion as a brave and efficient soldier. It appears that Wisconsin had a Maj General resign which meant Wis could have one Maj Gen or 3 brig Generals. Washburn was made a Maj Gen over the objection of the Wis delegation (as Lincoln had political obligations to the Washburn family). Hence Col Allen, Col Starkweather, and Col Fairchild (the brother of the Fairchild that was LtCol of the 16WIS) were not nominated. Later it appears that Col Allen had his appointment as Brig Gen sent to the War Dept only to discover that he had resigned from the Army for health reasons.
When I get more of the letters reviewed I will send more/ I have a petition signed by John Oats and the members of Co I asking that Sgt Wm Townsend be made Captain when Capt Stevens resigned (7/12/1862 in camp at Lake Providence,LA)
Ralph O. Allen, Ph.D.
Professor of Chemistry, Environmental Sciences & Public Health Sciences
Associate Vice President for Research & Graduate Studies
Director of Environmental Health & Safety
P.O. Box 400322
Charlottesville, VA 22904
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WI16thJim
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Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2010 02:44 pm |
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Thank you. Absolutely pure gold, esp. the petition signed by John Oats (actually spelled Oates, but our handwriting is so bad, it's hard to see the E and is often misspelled by those trying to read the chicken scratchings of an Oates). My only question is why you posted it in a thread titled 8th Illinois. Lord knows there is enough competition between WI and IL without them trying to steal our regiments .
Jim
Last edited on Tue Jan 5th, 2010 02:46 pm by WI16thJim
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True is his, for life is o'er
Sarpedon of the mighty war.
Herman Melville 1866 A Dirge for McPherson
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Ralph Allen
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Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2010 03:17 pm |
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I couldn't figure out how to post it where it belonged, but I wanted you to see this.
David Payne told me about this site and who you were (JohnOates)
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WI16thJim
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Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2010 03:24 pm |
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And I do thank you and David. You have not only made my day, but possibly my whole year! If you go back one click to the "Army of the Tenn" forum, look to the upper right, you'll see a button "New Topic." Clicking this button allows you to start a new thread and name it yourself. Perhaps we could get Wrap to rename this thread???? Thanks again for sharing your letters.
Jim
Last edited on Tue Jan 5th, 2010 03:26 pm by WI16thJim
____________________
True is his, for life is o'er
Sarpedon of the mighty war.
Herman Melville 1866 A Dirge for McPherson
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idaho native
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Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2010 05:02 pm |
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| So Jim: I was confused when I originally read Ralph's post but it appears you are confirming the letters Ralph mentions/has refer to the 16th Wisconsin not the 8th Illinois. Right? I need to get the official records out and see if there are any official reports for the 16th. Could be interesting in light of Ralph/s comments.
____________________
"In our youth our hearts were touched with fire." - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
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Wrap10
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Posted: Tue Jan 5th, 2010 11:08 pm |
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Unfortunately I can't move a single post all by itself - I can only move entire topics. I also don't want to change the name of this topic, as it was originally about the 8th Illinois and has several posts concerning that regiment. But I did a copy-and-paste of Ralph's post, and created a new topic for the 16th Wisconsin under the Army of the Tennessee forum. Ralph's post has been reproduced there. All is well. 
Perry
____________________
"And all is hushed at Shiloh." - Herman Melville
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